Gun mechanics and lack of variety thereof are killing the game for me

Discussion in 'Battleframe Discussion' started by Wursten, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. #1
    I'm not trying to put down people who are happy with the game, or advertise other games, but merely give feedback for an issue that for me and my personal friends seems to be hampering our playing experience.

    In a nutshell: most guns are too easy to use and there aren't enough types of them. While it is definitely true that getting the feel for the projectile velocity for the assault and derivative frames is arguably the most challenging and enjoyable of the gun mechanic experience, most guns simply require absolutely no skill, or require no nuance to master in order to use.

    Take the assault rifle: the almost complete lack of recoil (reticle shifting) makes it a breeze to use. The same holds even more so for the recon primary. I can definitely understand making the MCG (for the dreadnaught types) ridiculously easy to use, but couple that with the huge healthpools enemies have in this game and over time it gets really, really boring.

    I can give a lot of examples from other games where guns felt a lot more challenging to use and required some finesse to master, but in order to keep it from being suspect for advertising and getting closed/flamed, I'll just mention their abstract existence.

    I also realize that my friends and I are just a drop in the bucket of the playerbase. If nobody else cares, then c'est la vie and the game will be successful regardless.
  2. #2
    I think there is a large difference between the gun types. You have slow projectiles with lots of drop, fast projectiles with none, beam weapons, grenade launchers (sticky and bouncy), some that penetrate shields and some that do not, short range, long range. . . What kind of variety were you looking for?
    • Like x 2
  3. #3
    you got a flawed question, its all about player skill with a mix of how good the items is also no recoil is we got mecha armor on like halo genre so if we had recoil on mini guns it would be pointless to use them so its a bad player if he blames hes battleframe. modded from a tip on leading screen
  4. #4

    Also, the weapons you mentioned aren't usually the most effective - sure, the AR is easy to use, but who really uses it? Are you talking about the weapons on the stock battleframes? If so, they are more simplistic, but the unlockables all have nuance to them that the stock don't. The heavy plasma MG of the mammoth has outrageous DPS, but has an extreme dropoff at medium range. Hitting targets at range requires practice. The tigerclaw has extremely different primary and secondary fire, the latter of which can often vaporise you if used incorrectly. The Recluse has a small dropoff long ranged primary, and a large dropoff grenade style AOE secondary.

    I think there is a lot of variety.
  5. #5
    The variety of use, e.g. different recoil compensation, burst timing etc.
  6. #6
    What about the distinct lack of recoil and burst control required for those weapons?

    That is the primary method of distinction for automatic weapons in most games, but there is little of that here outside of ARs (and even for ARs it is quite trivial).

    Compensation for vertical drop is nice, but doesn't personally suffice for a MCG where you merely adjust the Y axis slightly while holding down the button.
  7. #7
    Umm, the dread class HMGs are bullet hoses that you need to keep on target for constant damage, the assault class has plasma cannons that require you to time your shots, recon classes have precise rifles that require more accuracy than the other guns to be effective. The guns don't feel anywhere near the same. Sure we don't really have a recoil mechanic, but there are guns with burst fire like the firecat alt. Yes, you need to hold all the guns on target to deal damage, but their pacing and style are all vastly different. When I am on my dread I focus fire the big heavies, when I am on the firecat I focus on hitting large clusters of weak enemies. In PvP as dread I try to camp bottlenecks and slow doen the enemy team, on the assault I play hit and run. The frame, and the guns they use, dictate what style of play is most effective. We are not playing with just machine guns, there are so many more variables.

    I do not really understand your complaint. Is the only thing you want an accuracy stat?
  8. #8
    I am saying there is a lack of things to do between aiming at the target and holding down the mouse button. Recoil and accuracy adjustment through the size of an expanding reticule come to mind along with bullet drop compensation, but this game has the latter and not really the former.

    Either recoil ought to be added, or accuracy adjustment, i.e controlling the reticule expansion should come more into play, but I am not arguing that this is somehow a necessary condition for all players, but myself.
  9. EccentricOne Titan Slayer

    I find that dealing with lag helps compensate for the lack of recoil/accuracy....
  10. ryan4nayr Commander

    I don't think your mouse is supposed to recoil from your hands while shooting Chosen.

    But if it did, maybe you should wear crystite-fueled power armor to keep your arm and posture steady as you melt virtual faces. It certainly helps my TigerClaw.
    • Like x 1
  11. NoahDVS Marshmallow

    There is actually recoil in the game, but it isn't very large and burst damage weapons usually reset to the center before firing the next shot.
  12. bazaba Mad Scientist

    1) The Avatars wear massive Crystite fueled armors with incredible power. There is no recoil they can't compensate with their sheer strenght.

    2)Have you ever fired a modern AR? The recoil of the real guns is a joke. The recoil most modern shooters use is their way to compensate for their lack of movement speed and fast paced gameplay to create an artificial indicator for so called "skill". All really fast shooters like UT classic and quake got guns with medium ,low or no recoil since the speed is hard enough to master.
    • Like x 2
  13. #13
    I don't really care about in-game, or real-life justifications for lack of depth of the actual shooting mechanics and yes, I've fired an AK47 before along with an M16. You can't full-auto those weapons and expect dead on accuracy.

    Gun recoil is really not a joke. I own plenty of guns to know that recoil plays a huge role in accuracy; even a 9mm Beretta has substantial kick that you have to get used to if you haven't fired one before.

    The point is that doing a repetitive mechanic should require more depth than it currently does... at least to keep somebody like me engaged.
  14. darkbud Herald of Decay

    Adding an artificial exaggerated recoil mechanic won't make the game fun for most of us, just annoying.

    You can't compare video game weapons to real ones, just can't do it. I mean, I regularly get 8 out of 10 at the 500 with iron sights(M16A2), in game even sniper rifles top out at what, 215? Hell, a real 12 gauge shotgun is still lethal over 600 using slugs, not accurate but still lethal.

    There is some moderate recoil mechanics within the game. Also moving while shooting does reduce accuracy. You can't empty the AR right into something at range by just holding down the trigger, you have to use bursts or most of your ammo will miss as the reticle expands.

    With things like the HMG on the dread having to deal with constantly expanding reticles due to recoil mechanics would really detract from the gameplay. Particularly with issues like spin up time and low damage per round. If it spun up quickly and did much more damage per round, then I might consider your argument to be more attractive, as it is though...

    As for the R36, meh, it really is a high mag cap, super accurate even on the move and not scoped in version of the AR. You might have a point with that particular weapon as it is relatively high damage per round, at least compared to the HMG.

    Aside from that though, other than a more significant recoil mechanic what types of nuances are you looking for that don't exist already? There are the assault guns which are varied yet unique to the assault, the different biotech weapons are again varied yet unique. The different dread frames machine guns are all fairly similar I'll readily admit. Engineers seem to have the most diversity in their weapons. Of course the recon frames have diversity too within their limited scope.

    You're asking for more depth, but aside from recoil, what type of things are you looking for?
    • Like x 1
  15. #15
    I dont see a need for your idea of recoil, Wursten. This is supposed be skill based action-shooter. Something of a ways of old Q3 or UT. While your idea works fine in many FPP shooters who use it as a balance factor, i myself do not see any need for this in FF. We already see tons of variety on original weaponry we got.
    And i personally do not want this game become more like BF3 or Planetside2 or any game with recoil, cause its hell to compensate sometimes totally absurd recoil.
    I believe this game was designed NOT TO BE like games like that. It appears designed to be action-style game. With badass flying combat and pew pew at move.
    I myself dont want that recoil crap in this game.
    • Like x 1
  16. NoahDVS Marshmallow

    The R36 does actually have recoil and you can see it when you shoot at a wall, but it isn't that much recoil. Same with the Charge Rifle.
  17. #17
    I'm pretty sure recoil is minimal in Firefall because there's already a game mechanic that makes aiming difficult: jumpjets. Aiming becomes a lot more difficult when you're using all 3 dimensions for movement.

    Sure it's easy to aim if you're standing on the ground, but that only works well if you're sniping from a distance; most enemies will rip you a new one if you stay grounded.
    • Like x 2
  18. psi Beta Vanguard

    I sort of agree with the OP about the weapons that fire bullets.

    There's something missing when I ADS and pull the trigger; and I think that it is the lack of pronounced recoil. Planetside 2 guns feel better, on the whole (recoil is pretty predictable, so a skilled player can compensate). In COD, recoil was implemented in a bizarre way, leading to some very strange behaviour, but it at least made the guns distinctive (note the past tense).

    And the Bio guns are far too pew pew, not much fun to use at all when I play Dragonfly. And I wish the alt sent out a healing beam like the Tesla.

    But I love the Tesla Rifle and Plasma Cannon; these are REAL signature weapons. And even the Grenade Launcher is fun.
    • Like x 1
  19. #19
    I am really happy that there isn't. I enjoy Firefall as much as I do primarily because it feels oldschool. I simply prefer shooters with ridiculous guns and little realism because circle strafing and trading blows for a while is much more interesting to me than the modern twitch playstyle.
    • Like x 1
  20. #20
    I grew up playing wolfenstein 3d and was well in my teens when Quake came out, so I know where you're coming from.

    The big difference between those games and this game is that the enemies in this game are insanely "spongey". Most enemies in Doom, Quake, etc. all exploded into tiny bits after a single shotgun blast; in this game, you often have to unload an entire mag (not clip, btw... pet peeves be damned) into the head.

    Not to mention in games like Planetside 2, the TTK is much shorter: pump shotguns kill you instantly and even most LMG's kill you in under half a second, or less (with headshots).

    Planetside 2, however, has substantial recoil you have to control to land your shots accurately at range. At least to me if you're going to make shooting last so long, it ought to be interesting, even more so than in other games. Give the guns more character, more depth, more than simply aim and shoot with the odd d= vt calculation.
    • Like x 1